August 1997 – JUNE – Anno [INCOMPLETE]

Very out of order.
Full Chinese Interview

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/cm/ anon from Chinese 5/17/13

Anno wept a little when he read Nobi’s contribution to Karasawa’s book. Nobi cried many times during Evangelion, beginning with Rei’s monologue in Episode 14. Nobi is asked about her theory that the artists and viewers are locked in battle. She felt that she was in a battle with Anno. Anno thinks his first battle was with his staff. In junior high school, Anno had a friend – nowadays, he says, you would call her a girlfriend – named Ritsuko, who had a major impact on his life and introduced him to sci-fi and shojo manga. Aside from titles like “Devilman” and “Team Astro,” Anno was largely uninterested in shonen manga. However, Anno doesn’t think he would be able to do justice to a shojo manga in an anime adaptation. Anno would read “Bessatsu Margaret,” “Ribon,” “Hana to Yume,” “Betsucomi,” and, at one point, even “Ciao.” Among the authors he likes, he mentions Fusako Kuramochi, Jun Ichikawa, Shinji Wada, Yu Azuki, Mariko Iwadate, Hideko Tachikake, Yukari Takahashi, Yumiko Oshima, and Taeko Watanabe.

**********

17th-angel.tumblr.com (5/17/14)

Anno: No, I’d sort of stopped understanding Kaworu-kun, so I couldn’t discount the possibility that I’d made a mistake. He’s just an odd guy. *laughs*

His image is a little different. Well, as a character, Ishida-kun’s voice was incredibly good, so I wondered whether the stuff that I’d simply thought up on my own wasn’t a little insufficient.

I wanted to make him someone that could be loved by anyone, an incredibly good person. Almost as though, by the time Shinji saw him, there was nothing he could do but get a complex.

[accompanied page]

**********

17th-angel.tumblr.com (5/17/13)

Anno: Since he’s [Kaworu-kun’s] the character who’s clearing up all of the complexes that Shinji has. Well, I sort of botched that portrayal, and it didn’t come out straightforward, though. A character that is liked by everyone.

In the initial stages, he was a pretty boy who carried around a cat. The very first plot title was “The cat and the transfer student.” It was a story about transfer student carrying a cat coming to the school and so forth.

As we went on with it, in episode 24, it had already moved away from the school, so. It would have still have been good if it had come between episodes 11 and 16, though.

**********

17th-angel.tumblr.com 5/17/13

Anno: A transfer student opens the door with a clatter, clatter, clatter, and he’s hugging a cat—I think it’d make for a good picture. If Kaworu made the cat walk at his side, it would be really tough to draw, so if he were holding it here, under his arms… *laughs*

Interviewer: Why did you give up on the cat?

Anno: Because it was a pain in the neck. *laughs*

**********

17th-angel.tumblr.com (5/17/14)

Interviewer: What about the play on words with the kanji characters for shisha and nagisa?

Anno: That was Satsukawa-san. We tentatively told him, would you call it water? The ocean? To make it something related to water. The name Kaworu was also Satsukawa-san’s.

Interviewer: Which means that the term shisha(1) may be rephrased as shito(2), right?

Anno: Hmmm, well, that’s true in terms of nuance, isn’t it?

Interviewer: Isn’t there also a play on words with the term shisha referring to dead people.

Anno: Yeah, it’s a play on words.

Interviewer: And then Shinji is more of a living being, while Kaworu-kun is a dead one.

Anno: Yeah. By making something katakana or kanji, you can attach all sorts of meanings to it.

1 messenger/apostle
2 messenger/emissary casualty/deceased

**********

17th-angel.tumblr.com (5/17/13)

Interviewer: But wouldn’t the name Nagisa Kaworu fit even a girl?

Anno: But that’s a young man! There’s no feminine sense whatsoever, right? Because it’s Shinji and another Shinji. Since it’s an ideal of Shinji’s* that’s appearing, it can’t be a girl.

Interviewer: Ah, I see.

*ideal Shinji/idealized version of Shinji (ie if Shinji could remake himself over into the perfect person, he would be exactly like Kaworu)

**********

17th-angel.tumblr.com 5/17/13

Anno: I’m thinking of adding a few scenes. I had the feeling that it’d be good to focus on Shinji and Kaworu-kun’s story. However, I also think that, if I have the extra time, I have to make Kaworu-kun with just Misato.

The truth is that Kaworu-kun just greeted Rei by chance and he’s only spoken with Shinji, hasn’t he? There’s no need for him to meet other people, but if the only one that I haven’t made him meet up with is Misato, I kind of wonder whether that’s awkward.

Although I can’t really think of what sort of scene it’d turn out to be.

**********

17th-angel.tumblr.com (5/17/13)

Interviewer: Usually, Anno-san, you and one other person are credited with the screenplay, but what sort of a relationship do you two have?

Anno: I had him do the plot after we spoke together, and I fixed up what took the form of the script once more to get it ready for animation.

Well, at that point in time, we were writing the script to send out, and so you could also say that the stories, drama, characters, and so forth that we’d thought of during previous meetings were starting to lose consistency at the time that that script finished.

We have to fix those so that they line up, so. I’m unifying it, so it’s becoming uniform, though. I help with the drama parts and so forth.

Interviewer: Who worked on episode 24?

Anno: A person named Satsukawa (Akio)-san did that. Satsukawa-san is better at—this is bad to say, but—he’s right on the mark when it comes to homoeroticism. *laugh*

**********

17th-angel.tumblr.com (5/17/13)

Interviewer: Did you stop Satsukawa-san when it looked like he was going to go berserk, Director Anno?

Anno: No, nothing like that. Satsukawa-san’s atmosphere remains in the script. Satsukawa-san’s original script had more of that sort of meaning and was JUNE-like.

Interviewer: For example?

Anno: I’m the one who went and set it in the bath, though. In the original script, the two of them were swimming naked in a river. *laugh*

**********

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Anno: In the original script, the two of them [Shinji & Kaworu] were swimming naked in a river. *laughs*

Interviewer: In broad daylight?

Anno: It might’ve been at night.

Interviewer: At night, while showering in the moonlight?

Anno: I don’t know. There was a beautiful picture of the two of them swimming in the river.

Interviewer: The version of the ending, “FLY ME TO THE MOON”, with two boys. *laughs*

**********

17th-angel.tumblr.com 5/17/13

Interviewer: At that time, it felt like even among the manga artists and writers phone calls and faxes were suddenly flying around, saying, will they go that far for us? Director, you’ve written the script, but how was Kaworu-kun’s rather pleasing line born?

Anno: Hmm, how did I write that? It came out rather naturally.

Interviewer: It came out naturally? *laugh* What about whatever research you’d done?

Anno: There was none. I don’t read stuff like JUNE.

Interviewer: Well then, conversely, when you seduce someone, or when you are seduced, do you think that you’d like to be told something like that? Telling someone or being told by someone, “Your heart is like glass,”—did anything like that actually happen to you?

Anno: Nope, nothing like that.

Interviewer: You told Newtype, “It’s nice to take a bath, don’t you think?”

Satou: Hahaha!

Anno: Yeah, I think it’s great.

Interviewer: What a blunt answer. *laughs*

**********

17th-angel.tumblr.com (5/17/14)

Interviewer: The voice actor who played Kaworu-kun, Ishida Akira-san, was good, too, wasn’t he?

Anno: Ishida-kun was good, I agree.

Interviewer: He had an atmosphere and everything, didn’t he? Did you give Ishida-san directions like do things like this or anything?

Anno: How did I put it? More of a fine line, more gently, only about that much. On the first try, when we were doing a test, his image was a little different.

On the second try, after I said to do it like this, he was already A-OK just like that. When it was the real deal, he was splendidly good. Even though there weren’t any pictures, and he’d never seen our show, he really did well—that’s what I thought.

**********

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Interviewer: Did you plan that sort of thing from the beginning? With Kaworu-kun as the last Angel at that time.

Anno: Although even in the opening he only shows up for two frames.

Interviewer: At the point in time when you created the opening, did you only have that picture?

Anno: Well, only Sadamoto (Yoshiyuki)’s rough of the picture had come out yet. It’s changed a bit, though, from the original version.

Interviewer: But is it the same in terms of their roles?

Anno: Yes, well. I’d been thinking about having the last Angel be a young man who looked like a human.

**********

17th-angel.tumblr.com (5/17/14)

Interviewer: Were there other scenes like that?

Satou: Hmm, he had a cello, right? Together…

“I’ll play the piano, so you play the cello!” he said.

At night, in a classroom, Kaworu went first, and he was playing; when Shinji softly peeked in on him, “Can you do something, too?”

“Next time, let’s do it together.” It had that sort of feeling.

“I’ll sing a little, so…”

Anno: That’s right, that’s right. There was a scene in a music room after an evacuation, when no one was there.

**********

17th-angel.tumblr.com (5/17/14)

Interviewer: What is the connection between Kaworu-kun and this image of music?

Anno: I don’t think it was words. It was as communication, when he’d first come.

Interviewer: Shinji also played the cello, and played music once, didn’t he? Or else, was that one time a variety of medical treatment, or something?

Anno: No, I don’t know. That was the scriptwriters’ idea. Well, it was just that the character gave off the feeling of a cello.

**********

17th-angel.tumblr.com (5/17/14)

Interviewer: Of course, JUNE wants to see them playing the piano and cello together. It’s also hard to throw out the river scene. But the bath scene might be more erotic. Splashing about in the river in the open air is sort of hygienic, isn’t it?

Satou: However, though I don’t know this sort of thing, I kind of think that getting into the river together, naked, at night, saying things like, “It’s only moonlight; nobody’s watching us,” is a little more like that, you know? *laughs* It’s normal to have two people be naked together in the bath, after all. *laughs*

Anno: Yeah, completely nude, you know?

Satou: “You should swim, too,” and, “Somebody might be watching!” and so forth, and on top of that, I think it’s getting into the world of River Phoenix.*

Interviewer: That’s true. But I wonder which we, as women, prefer? In terms of results, the two of them being alone in the bathroom had, shall we say, a high JUNE factor.

Anno: Well, when it comes to male baths, it’s a world that you can’t peek into, after all. It might have the atmosphere of a forbidden territory. But, no matter how you look at it, it’s a public bath. *laughs*

Satou: Isn’t that good? It’s realistic.

**********

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Interviewer: JUNE’s readers would be ever so pleased. It’s as I thought. *laughs* But, when I think of how you went to such trouble to bring out such delicious characters, it’s just too much that, even though he[Kaworu-kun] was an Angel, he had just one episode and then went away. Thanks to you, I’m looking forward to Comiket, though.

Satou: There are rumors that, up until recently, people did nothing but things like, “Touji seme, Shinji uke.” *laughs* I heard tell that now things are different.

Anno: Touji-kun went away, and they all turned to Kaworu-kun, it seems.

**********

/cm/ anon 5/7/13

——Eva ended without solving all of the problems, so isn’t it kind of like running away? Some people think that even though you say “I mustn’t run away”, in the end you still run.
Anno: Why would you think the theme is“you mustn’t run away”?

——What? If you say so. (laugh) Yeah, Shinji is not always right.
Anno: Why do people always think that the main character’s thoughts and actions are always right?

——So it is. The main character did say “It is ok to run away.”
Anno: Yes, this is the theme. Running away is not bad.

——Then he didn’t need to kill Kaworu.
Anno: Since he is someone who I can sympathize with, then it is okay if he didn’t kill Kaworu. The person who said “I can’t run away” is the one who run away, you sure can blame him. But why would you think “don’t run away” is the right thing to do? Did I always do the right thing? Certainly not. In TV episode 25 and 26, there is also dialogue like, “If you want to run, then just do it.” Escape has it’s own ups and downs. Humans need choice in order to live, they must gain something and lose something. If you don’t do anything, then you gain nothing and lose nothing, but it is no different from being dead. But there are many people like that, too. In the end, one cannot make an omelet without breaking eggs. Human can’t advance without hurting others. If you are afraid of hurting people, then you just remain stagnant. Not escaping doesn’t mean there will be no problem. You can’t just run away because sometimes bad things happen when you run away. But if it makes you feel good, then why not?

**********

/cm/ anon 5/7/13

[He also talks about Rei.]

Anno: I didn’t know what to do about Rei. I wanted to make her schizophrenic, but I didn’t know how to write it. Maybe you have to become psychotic yourself to write someone who is psychotic. So I asked my friend,”do you have any articles that talk about mental disorders?” He gave me this book, it was very easy to understand. Some psychotic person wrote poetry there. They were great. Their poetry moved me. Like light reflect on the sharp knife. It give me a inhuman feeling. Very great. Looking back, maybe I have some tendencies like that, too. (laugh) Only a psychotic person think other psychotic person’s poetry is great. After reading their poetry, I started to write Rei in one go from beginning to end.

**********

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Interviewer: You said previously that that sort of JUNE-like, or should I say the sort of production that goes beyond friendship, came out that way naturally, didn’t you?

Anno: As far as I know, it’s possible that I put in a few guys like that. Otherwise, I wonder whether it might be that I have parts of me like that, myself, things that are at about that degree.

Interviewer: That level is quite a thing. *laugh*

Anno: As expected, I was called odd by the staff. *laugh*

**********

/cm/ anon (5/12/13)

–You said that their relationship was JUNEish, something beyond friendship. The feeling came out naturally.
Anno: I put all of my knowledge about that kind of things in there. You can say that that trait in me is just this little.

–That little part is already very great! (laugh)
Anno: The staff really told me that I was weird when they made it. (laugh)

–Speaking about that blushing, was it because Shinji was happy that somebody likes him?
Anno: Yes, Shinji really didn’t experience sexual desire there. (laugh)

********************

/cm/ anon 5/18/13 in order

Satou: We made a special collection about EVA, then a week after that issue, Ep 24 was out. People who watched EVA because of that issue, their heart must were captured immediately.*laugh*

——At that time, it felt like even among the manga artists and writers phone calls and faxes were suddenly flying around, saying, will they go that far for us? Director, you’ve written the script, but how was Kaworu-kun’s rather pleasing line born?
Anno: Hmm, how did I write that? It came out rather naturally.

——It came out naturally? *laugh* What about whatever research you’d done?
Anno: There was none. I don’t read stuff like JUNE.
——Well then, conversely, when you seduce someone, or when you are seduced, do you think that you’d like to be told something like that? Telling someone or being told by someone, “Your heart is like glass,”—did anything like that actually happen to you?
Anno: Nope, nothing like that.

——You told Newtype, “It’s nice to take a bath, don’t you think?”
Satou: Hahaha!

Anno: Yeah, I think it’s great.

——What a blunt answer. *laughs* Why not in the room, but made the bath as a start?

Anno: When you are in school, you ofther go to public bath with your friends, right? After school, or go to the bathing pool directly after you swim in the sea. Public bath is a place where men go to for social activity. But we don’t touch each other like rubing back. In short, we played together then went back home. It is a little more healthy feeling.*laugh*

——Eva has Hot spring Penguin. Misato also love bathing, or should I say, it feels more comfortable when you are soaking in water.

Anno: Yes, being in the bath pool make you feel like return to your mother.

——So when you got tired of working, you may want to have a bath after you get home.

Anno: Taking a bath is great.*laugh*

——By the way, it is interseting that Fujiyama and NERV’s symbol kept switching. So are all the buckets with the symbol.

Anno: Hmm, they printed it in reverse. Working really long hours, I want to play some tricks.

——Those are great.

Satou: We should focus on the bathing.*laugh*

——What are NERV’s bathhouse staff like? They should wear uniform. Which energy source do they use?

Anno: Sure enough it is nuclear energy *laugh* The remaining hot water that nuclear reactor left behind. The secondary cooling water should do the work for the bathhouse.

——Did you change something in the director’s cut?

Anno: I’m thinking of adding a few scenes. I had the feeling that it’d be good to focus on Shinji and Kaworu-kun’s story. However, I also think that, if I have the extra time, I have to make Kaworu-kun with just Misato.
The truth is that Kaworu-kun just greeted Rei by chance and he’s only spoken with Shinji, hasn’t he? There’s no need for him to meet other people, but if the only one that I haven’t made him meet up with is Misato, I kind of wonder whether that’s awkward. Although I can’t really think of what sort of scene it’d turn out to be.

——You said previously that that sort of JUNE-like, or should I say the sort of production that goes beyond friendship, came out that way naturally, didn’t you?

Anno: As far as I know, it’s possible that I put in a few guys like that. Otherwise, I wonder whether it might be that I have parts of me like that, myself, things that are at about that degree.

——That level is quite a thing. *laugh*

Anno: As expected, I was called odd by the staff. *laugh*

——Speaking about the blushing, is it because Shinji was happy that someone said they like him?

Anno: Yes, Shinji kun really didn’t experience carnal desire there*laugh*

——Kuniko Mukōda also wrote that kind of story. In foreigners’ eyes, Japanese workers are all gay. Even though they don’t have physical relationship, but they like working at company more than staying at home, so they always work overtime, even in holidays. So, when you are in GAINAX, do you feel more happy with men? 

Anno: Happy……No, I’m not. But I do feel more at ease.

——You feel more tired with woman?

Anno: Of courese, you have to consider their feelings.

——You have to take care of the ladies.

Anno: It is not “take care”, just that you have to consider her feelings when you deal with woman. It take too much time for you to be familiar with her enough that you don’t need to consider her feelings any more.

——Did you plan that sort of thing from the beginning? With Kaworu-kun as the last Angel at that time.

Anno: Although even in the opening he only shows up for two frames.

——At the point in time when you created the opening, did you only have that picture?

Anno: Well, only Sadamoto (Yoshiyuki)’s rough of the picture had come out yet. It’s changed a bit, though, from the original version.

——But is it the same in terms of their roles?

Anno: Yes, well. I’d been thinking about having the last Angel be a young man who looked like a human.

——But wouldn’t the name Nagisa Kaworu fit even a girl?

Anno: But that’s a young man! There’s no feminine sense whatsoever, right? Because it’s Shinji and another Shinji. Since it’s an ideal of Shinji’s* that’s appearing, it can’t be a girl.

——Ah, I see.

Anno: Since he’s [Kaworu-kun’s] the character who’s clearing up all of the complexes that Shinji has. Well, I sort of botched that portrayal, and it didn’t come out straightforward, though. A character that is liked by everyone.
In the initial stages, he was a pretty boy who carried around a cat. The very first plot title was “The cat and the transfer student.” It was a story about transfer student carrying a cat coming to the school and so forth.
As we went on with it, in episode 24, it had already moved away from the school, so. It would have still have been good if it had come between episodes 11 and 16, though.

——Usually, Anno-san, you and one other person are credited with the screenplay, but what sort of a relationship do you two have?

Anno: I had him do the plot after we spoke together, and I fixed up what took the form of the script once more to get it ready for animation.
Well, at that point in time, we were writing the script to send out, and so you could also say that the stories, drama, characters, and so forth that we’d thought of during previous meetings were starting to lose consistency at the time that that script finished.
We have to fix those so that they line up, so. I’m unifying it, so it’s becoming uniform, though. I help with the drama parts and so forth.

——Who worked on episode 24?

Anno: A person named Satsukawa (Akio)-san did that. Satsukawa-san is better at—this is bad to say, but—he’s right on the mark when it comes to homoeroticism. *laugh*

——Did you stop Satsukawa-san when it looked like he was going to go berserk, Director Anno?

Anno: No, nothing like that. Satsukawa-san’s atmosphere remains in the script. Satsukawa-san’s original script had more of that sort of meaning and was JUNE-like.

——For example?

Anno: I’m the one who went and set it in the bath, though. In the original script, the two of them were swimming naked in a river. *laugh*

——In broad daylight?

Anno: It might’ve been at night.

——At night, while showering in the moonlight?

Anno: I don’t know. There was a beautiful picture of the two of them swimming in the river.

——The version of the ending, “FLY ME TO THE MOON”, with two boys. *laughs*
Anno: The staff told me that “No, they really can’t do it”.*laugh*

——Were there other scenes like that?

Satou: Hmm, he had a cello, right? Together…“I’ll play the piano, so you play the cello!” he said. At night, in a classroom, Kaworu went first, and he was playing; when Shinji softly peeked in on him, “Can you do something, too?” “Next time, let’s do it together.” It had that sort of feeling. “I’ll sing a little, so…”

Anno: That’s right, that’s right. There was a scene in a music room after an evacuation, when no one was there.

——What is the connection between Kaworu-kun and this image of music?

Anno: I don’t think it was words. It was as communication, when he’d first come.

——Shinji also played the cello, and played music once, didn’t he? Or else, was that one time a variety of medical treatment, or something?

Anno: No, I don’t know. That was the scriptwriters’ idea. Well, it was just that the character gave off the feeling of a cello.

——Did you make the first draft?

Anno: No, we just have the script.

——JUNE’s readers would be ever so pleased. It’s as I thought. *laughs* But, when I think of how you went to such trouble to bring out such delicious characters, it’s just too much that, even though he[Kaworu-kun] was an Angel, he had just one episode and then went away. Thanks to you, I’m looking forward to Comiket, though.

Satou: There are rumors that, up until recently, people did nothing but things like, “Touji seme, Shinji uke.” *laughs* I heard tell that now things are different.

Anno: Touji-kun went away, and they all turned to Kaworu-kun, it seems.

——Of course, JUNE wants to see them playing the piano and cello together. It’s also hard to throw out the river scene. But the bath scene might be more erotic. Splashing about in the river in the open air is sort of hygienic, isn’t it?

Satou: However, though I don’t know this sort of thing, I kind of think that getting into the river together, naked, at night, saying things like, “It’s only moonlight; nobody’s watching us,” is a little more like that, you know? *laughs* It’s normal to have two people be naked together in the bath, after all. *laughs*

Anno: Yeah, completely nude, you know?

Satou: “You should swim, too,” and, “Somebody might be watching!” and so forth, and on top of that, I think it’s getting into the world of River Phoenix.

——That’s true. But I wonder which we, as women, prefer? In terms of results, the two of them being alone in the bathroom had, shall we say, a high JUNE factor.

Anno: Well, when it comes to male baths, it’s a world that you can’t peek into, after all. It might have the atmosphere of a forbidden territory. But, no matter how you look at it, it’s a public bath. *laughs*

Satou: Isn’t that good? It’s realistic.

Anno: To tell you the truth, the ideas I want to use in the finale are all already used before.

——In the TV?

Anno: Yes, in Ep 25 and Ep 26, I already used my ideas for final there.

——Ah?! I see.

Anno: I get one extra Ep length. Ep 25 solving the puzzles. Then the rest is just dealing with Shinji’s issues.

——People think there are a variety of interpretation.

Anno: The expression of image is different from the dialogues, but the thing I want to express is essentially the same.

——Is that right? I thought it was because your lack of time, so insteading of destorying your work, you rather just just fought without any further consideration.*laugh* I think even if it end up as a failure, you still have to try your best.

Anno: No, though is is also one of the reasons. Before the deadline, I tought to make it a story with in a story, more theatrical. Let Shinji see other people, not only the surface, but also their past……Everyone have a dark part about them no matter who they are, right? But when you deal with people, especially when you don’t want them dislike you, you will try your best to hide your dirty part, you will try your best to show them your good part. Only after you see both a person’s good side and bad side, that is when you treat a person as a independent individual.

——In other words, accept everything about that person.

Anno: Yes, that is Dr. Frend’s theory. The theory about good mother and bad mother. In short, mother will protect you unconditionally, but she also restrict you. Mother can’t be in a good mood everyday, for example, when you are crying, if your mother is in a good mood, she will say “Good baby, good baby, don’t cry” and comfort you. If she is in a bad mood, she will get angry and scold you. Children don’t think these two mothers are in fact the same person, so they are divided into good mother and bad mother. When a child realise that two personalities can present within a person, that is the time he really see other people. I just want to express this. I already used up all the ideas I can come up with.

——You didn’t intend to make it a story within a story from the beginning?

Anno: More prone to drama. Ep 25 was still according to plan. Just make the Misato and Asuka in Shinji’s eyes is Ok. Then I planed to make Asuka recover in Ep25. But I failed. It was too hard.
——What about his father?

Anno: Father is in the final. Ep 25 deal with friends and other people, final will deal with family.
——Will you kill him?*laugh*

Anno: I don’t know. But I already used this idea, it cost too much trouble. You can’t use the same idea twice……If people forget it, then I can use the idea, but they don’t. One Ld disk have two Eps, so I try to avoid using the same idea in two Eps.

——Did you plan to use the script in the screen?

Anno: Yes, I did. Show the script of the story within story to people. In other words, extending the world beyond the TV fiction.

——Ah, so this is……Then will you show up in the shot?

Anno: I had thought about it. But they told me no. I really want to make the half part a live action. The TV station refuced. After Ep22, I can’t maintaining the quality of images. We knew this before December. Three months before that, we calculate the schedule then went “Oh, no!” We have several options, I choice the most over the top one.

——Your work cause so much discussion, that never happens before.

Anno: Maybe you are right, but I think it is a good thing that the ending is not normal.

——It becomes a work that make people think.

Anno: YEAH, I want to avoid the feeling that everything was expected, so I want to rebel a little in the end.

——Watanabe Taeko got very angry because this betray.*laugh* Watanabe san was very devoted to EVA, she watched it many times, then predicted what would happen next week. For a time she was 400% in sync with the show.

Satou: So she guessed the plot.

——By the way, she liked Asuka very much. So she can’t accept the fact Asuka is broken, she want to remake what happen after Ep20 herself. She was was mad with rage when the last two Ep were airing.*laugh* She asked me to tell you that you should absolutely apologize to her.*laugh*

Anno: Wow, I am Watanabe san’s fan.

——I see. In brief, Watanabe san is a huge fan of EVA, she watched Ep26 with her good friends. Her hate is as deeply as her love. *laugh*

Satou: We are so careless. Watanabe san is such a higher-up.

——Maybe the high sync make her addiction, she can’t be objective.

Anno: Yeah, she was very cool-head, I can’t believe she can behave like this. I should give the script to Watanabe san.

——She will certainly read them very carefully.

Anno: Really? We should ask her to write the script from the beginning.*laugh*

Satou: If she can’t accept the result, she could write it herself.*laugh*

Anno: But, Watanabe san must come up with the best ending she can design in her mind. I read her manga, we met once, when I was talking with her, I felt that her storytelling talent and her story building ability are way better than me……Like at least three ranks higher*laugh* I totally can not measure up to her.*laugh* Maybe Watanabe san’s ending is the better one.*laugh* I think it is must better than mine. It is the truth. I’m certain she can come up with a better story structure. But, the thing you build yourself only belong to you.

——It surely is different from your work.

Anno: Absolutely. This is the problem. But people who get angry must have their own story.

——In this sense, people get attached to the show when they were watching it, they forget it is just a fiction. Of course thet know it is just a dream, but when somebody warned them that it is just a dream while they are still attaching to it, they feel like they are abandoned.

Anno: Yeah, I think they will feel dissatisfy, but……I don’t think the end of the show is the end of everything. I know it is innatism, it can’t be helped. Even the story is not finished, you just have to solve the character’s problems. Being enslaved by something and complain about it, I don’t think it is a good thing to do.

——Eva ended without solving the problems, it is some kind of run away? People think that even though you talk about “I can’t run away,” in the end you still run.

Anno: Why would you think the theme is “you can’t run away”?

——What? If you said so *laughs*, yeah, Shinji is not always right.

Anno: Why people think that the protagonist’s thoughts and actions are always right?

——So it is. The protagonist did say “It is ok to run away.”

Anno: Yes, this is the theme. Running away is not bad.

——Then he didn’t need to kill Kaworu, too.

Anno: Since he can sympathize with me, than it is all right if I don’t kill him. The person who say that he can’t run away is the one who escape, you surely can blame him for this. But thinking that it is the right thing to not to escape is a fixed thinking pattern. You can’t always do the right thing. In Ep 25 and 26, there are lines like “If you want to run away, then just do it.” Escape itself has good and bad consequences. People have to make choice if they want to live. There is gain and loss in life. If you do nothing, there is noting to loss and nothing to gain. It is no different from the dead. But there are many people like this. You have to give to get. Humans can’t advance without hurting others. If you are afraid of hurting people, then you are just remain stagnant. Don’t escape doesn’t mean there will be no problem, you can’t run away because sometimes bad things happen when you run away. But if it makes you feel good, then why not?
I often hear about Adult Children recently, the kind of person who have disqualification parents, whose parents is a burden when they are growing up. They cannot live without their parents or men, if they know that run away is good, if they run away from their parents, or leaving their parents behind, maybe they can be free. Some mother is overprotection, she tell her child that “My little child, there is demon in Tokyo, you can’t go there”, then lock the child up in his own walls and never let him go. This kind of mother always exist. If the child himself don’t feel it is a problem, he want to stay there, then it is Ok. But there are also people who feel oppressed, they hate this. For them, escaping from the place that bind them, going to Tokyo to become a free-lance writer and live on their own is way better than this. That kind of person should run away, away from the country.

——But the escape and leave give you two completely different impression.

Anno: Escaping is the same. If escaping can free yourself, then there is no problem. I think it is better just to run away. But look at Ep26, it seems Shinji is possessed by EVA. He never let EVA go, he use the Eva to make others approve him, he use it to gain his significance of existence. I think if he can free from the EVA, then at least there will be a next stage waiting for him.

——Someone say that Shinji must pilot, his relationship with Misato and others can only be workmates. In general, if you don’t make Eva anymore, can you still stay at GAINAX?*laugh* Because drawing is the area you are good at.

Anno: It should be a greater area, such as making Anime. Lately, because EVA is done, I stumble upon Shuji Terayama’s book about drama in a second hand bookshop. Before this, I was never interested in him, I never saw his films or read his books, just know he exist. I only know that he was into drama and Mamoru Oshii san pay homage to him. Then I read that book, his theory is very interseting. Even though I know that people of 70s are like this. He wrote in his book that the reason he wrote drama is because he can only relate with society through drama, in other words, he can’t relate to society without drama. It is just like this. I can’t express myself without Anime. I can’t talk to people. I have nothing of my own.

——Then it is your mission in life.

Anno: Hmm……I don’t know. I think talent is a vitium, it is not something that flow out. It is a huge hollowness hole.

——So you creating works to fill the hole?

Anno: Yes, that is expressing. Every express is like this. So décadence is impossible. In the Anime area. No, I think this is what expressing is like. VA’s and artist’s work are the same. I think this kind of work are all about expressing.

——Is the Human Instrumentality Project also about filling the empty space?

Anno: I think life is just an activity that keep filling the empty space.

——I see.

Anno: But, compare to other people, if seems that my hollowness is bigger. I can’t satisfy myself unless I work this hard. Even now, I still don’t feel satisfy.

Side notes.
NERV’s leave symbol is fig.
In A Cruel Angel’s Thesis, the lyric “young boy, become the legend” was “young boy, become the weapon” originally.
You should read the lyrics of the ode to joy in Ep24.
The Angel appear in Ep1 is base on Ishtar from Asari Yoshitō’s workワッハマン.
Anno is vegan, he wouldn’t even eat animal-like biscuit.

****

/cm/ anon 5/19/13

Anno: The author is the kind of person who give the product of masturbation to the audience.
Nobi: I understand, you can’t have any feelings unless people watch it.*laugh*
Anno: I feel high when people watch it. Because only a narcissist can become a author. You have to believe in yourself somehow to let other people see your work. If you don’t have self-confidence, then you will just pack up and go to hide.

——But according to this analogy, there are also some porn stars who will do what the clients ask, like they just do it for the clients.

Anno:That’s why we need games. With anime characters, you have to wonder “does the person like me or not”, but game characters are more active, they will tell you that they love you more directly, right? Like you give your client a hand job.*laugh*

——Why do you want other people to watch you masturbate?

Anno:No, but I think my masturbation show can make money.

——Because you are good at it?

Anno:Yeah.I don’t want to give other people hand jobs, if they really want to get off, they can just masturbate. I have to concentrate on my work, I don’t have to service them to that state. If my service is too satisfying, then people will just do nothing themselves, right?

——Would you use “I’m helping other people” as an excuse?
Anno: Doing things for other people, it is nothing but a lie.

——You should just learn to masturbation like me?

Anno:Everybody’s relations are different, you can masturbate after you watch it, you can also raise your head and wait for them shooting cum on your face after your watch it *laugh*

  • please note this was before End of Evangelion.

****

Anno is weird. In the second part of the interview, he compare Eva with drugs, he said people watching Anime is like watching the writer masturbation……Yeah, I’m sure there are some meta commentary about Shinii here.
He also talk about that time he try to kill himself, so he stand on the top of the building, one leg in the air, body moving forword, and think that if he really don’t want to die, he will back down. I wonder if it is the same with Shinji at the beginning of EOE, where he was wet in front of the lake that he meet Kaworu.

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